Comments on Cranky Fitness: Two-Timin' Husbands: Not Their Fault?

I am a geneticist...and I honestly think that most...

2008-09-09T10:41:00.000-04:00

I am a geneticist...and I honestly think that most things can be changed to some degree if you want to.
I am an eternally chirpy optimist, but it seems like too easy of a cop out to blame genetics for things. It doesn't mean you should not try or give up. It's not an excuse.
People who genetically can't walk or hear or talk seem to get by in life and learn ways to deal with life. Some things are difficult, but I really think you need to try and do the best you can with what you've been given and not just give in to it and not try.

I twittered today about a study that said the anti...

2008-09-08T21:55:00.000-04:00

I twittered today about a study that said the antidote to having a fat gene is to exercise more (Exercise trumps obesity gene, U.S. study finds -- it'll be posted on my twitter update on my blog after midnight eastern).

So what's the antidote to the cheating gene, then? Hmmm...

BTW, the kid in the photo with paint everywhere......

2008-09-08T17:56:00.000-04:00

BTW, the kid in the photo with paint everywhere...I had the same artistic tendencies once. Except my canvas was a family-heirloom Oriental rug. I learned from that mistake real quick, LOL.

Ok, my brain is totally fried after reading all th...

2008-09-08T17:51:00.000-04:00

Ok, my brain is totally fried after reading all that information.

I've known that genetics can affect personality and behavior for a long time. Bipolar disorder runs in the family, BUT therapy, family education (very important), and drugs help a lot!

I have an "everything and the kitchen sink" view on why people act the way they do. It's a combo meal of genetics, parenting, schooling, environment, societal influences, life experiences, free will, moral set, probably about 100 other factors we haven't discovered yet, and whether on not they had their morning coffee.

What I try to do is not judge anyone harshly when I think they're doing something I wouldn't do or being a jerk because I don't know the circumstances that have put them in the position they're in.

It can be a good thing to know one's predispositio...

2008-09-08T17:03:00.000-04:00

It can be a good thing to know one's predispositions. If one knows one is predispositioned toward alcoholism, for example, one can then use extra caution.

Perhaps the real difficulty is how do we teach people to feel empowered to overcome or work with their predilections instead of feeling like they're the helpless victims of them?

My totally unscientifically validated theory: your...

2008-09-08T16:38:00.000-04:00

My totally unscientifically validated theory: your genes might determine your physical characteristics, but I don't see how they can do more than predispose you to certain behaviors. In other words, I can't choose to change my height. That's determined already. But although I might be predisposed to be short-tempered, I can learn to control that.

So I'm all in with the Personal Responsibility folks! ;)

Nature vs Nurture.Can't we all just get ALONG?!!:)...

2008-09-08T16:33:00.000-04:00

Nature vs Nurture.

Can't we all just get ALONG?!!

:)

Roads don't always go downhill and the wind isn't always at our backs. There's times we really do need to battle aspects of our nature. If we're lucky, we've received the kind of nurturing to help us when confronting those aspects.

I feel sorry for those folks who got short-changed on both the DNA and domestic fronts. They haunt our prisons, asylums and big city streets.

No matter what one's genetic predispositions, ther...

2008-09-08T15:50:00.000-04:00

No matter what one's genetic predispositions, there are still certain laws and behavioral norms we must live by if we're to get along. I reject "it's my genes" as an excuse for wrongdoing, but it's too bad we aren't better at teaching people how to work with what they've got.

There are legal, honest ways of working with a lot of character traits, but as a society we push a certain ideal (college, white-collar job, monogamous marriage, kids, dog, SUV, house in the 'burbs) and look askance at anyone who follows a different path.

I'm not advocating letting people with a compulsion to kill go around murdering people, but how many times do people give others a hard time for being in an open marriage or chosing to not have kids? We as a society judge peoples' clothes, homes, jobs, hobbies and education as if we know best what will suit the other guy.

As a society, maybe we should get better at encouraging people to find open, honest ways to indulge the quirks that are basically harmless instead of shaming them into the truly shameful behavior of sneaking around and lying.

Then we could focus our energies on the outliers and maybe find ways to eradicate the truly unacceptable behaviors that harm us all.

I don't even think it's genetics as much as it is ...

2008-09-08T15:10:00.000-04:00

I don't even think it's genetics as much as it is the influence of our family as we grew up. Lucky for me, I was blessed with great parents. I hope my kids are as lucky ;)

Hey, do women have one of those gene things too? ...

2008-09-08T14:44:00.000-04:00

Hey, do women have one of those gene things too? Is it the same gene?

I have to come down on the personal responsibility side too, otherwise I'd have no reason to live. I think the genetic predisposition to act like an idiot is no more or less an obstacle to succeeding as a human being and acting responsibly than some physical predispositions are to developing fitness. Like my predisposition to slack off. It doesn't serve as an excuse. That's why we have RULES, so you don't have to go reinventing the social wheel all the time.

In fact, as an old fogy I have to say that's the disturbing thing about the times we live in--social mores seem to be all over the place. A lot of people don't know what the rules are.

I don't think our will is all that free if we are ...

2008-09-08T14:33:00.000-04:00

I don't think our will is all that free if we are not aware of its limitations. We make a lot of decisions that are hardwired into us while our brain thinks at the same time it takes a rational choice. None of us are immune against group dynmaics for instance - it's not just other people that get sucked in into mob behaviour or mass panics. A lot of our behaviour is predisposed but gets rationalized.

But we can be selfaware - I really like Tony's idea of changing the program long term - and overcome our knee-jerk reactions. And that is where our free will lies.

Monika

Great points you all are making!And thanks Tony--I...

2008-09-08T13:42:00.000-04:00

Great points you all are making!

And thanks Tony--I agree about the N v. N as false dichotomy. The debate is often framed that way, so while I may have referenced it I really don't see why anyone would think it's either/or.

Will have to check out your free will post, as you have obviously put a lot of thought into it.

Nature vs. Nurture, Free Will vs. Genetic Pre-dete...

2008-09-08T13:17:00.000-04:00

Nature vs. Nurture, Free Will vs. Genetic Pre-determinism.

N v N is clearly a false dichotomy. Both of those play a role in how a person turns out.

Free Will is trickier though. To accept that you have free will, I think you have to go into the realm of the spiritual. We are either a bag of chemicals and nerves, acting based on the reactions occurring inside us, or... there is something else, call it a soul, that allows us to override the chemical reactions.

A few people talked about how we should be able to control our impulses, my personal belief is that we actually have less control over our response to an input, than we do over "longer term" issues.

Longer term, we can make small changes like improving diet, sleeping more, and exercising which all improve our hormonal balance, or we can get counseling or read books that affect our thought processes. Either of those are, in effect, reprogramming the black box. Then the next time you are faced with an impulse you have "progamming" in place to do the right thing.

Regarding husbands who cheat, they are or will be held accountable. In some cases though (sex addiction for example), they were not able to control themselves. If you asked them before the fact whether cheating is ok, theri answer would be "No."

When the moment of truth comes however, brain chemicals kick in to override the logical thinking side, and the rationalizations come out (I never really loved her, It depends on your definition of sex, etc.). I'm not defending cheating spouses in any way shape or form, but either they do not have a well-developed sense of morals or else they are simply not programmed to resist.

I wrote a bit about free will on Emotions For Engineers at http://www.emotionsforengineers.com/2007/05/does-free-will-exist.html
and about addictions at http://www.emotionsforengineers.com/2007/06/addictions-alcoholism-sex-addiction.html

Cheers,
Tony

a lot of it's already been said, but i'm more of t...

2008-09-08T13:13:00.000-04:00

a lot of it's already been said, but i'm more of the belief that it's a combination, with some things ultimately coming down to our own choices.

i'm not so insightful today.

How did you get all those photos of me? Yeah, the...

2008-09-08T12:59:00.000-04:00

How did you get all those photos of me? Yeah, the drier was a blast!!

Taking responsibility, forgiveness, always easier from the outside looking in. Nice post!!

I think we're directed by parents into a certain s...

2008-09-08T12:51:00.000-04:00

I think we're directed by parents into a certain sort of direction- such as, we'll have a different outlook on life if we grow up in a rich suburb as opposed to a sketchier area of the city, or if our parents have a certain political perspective we'll likely adopt it or at least be somewhat influenced by it. And theres other things like diseases or whatever that run in the family that are obviously out of our control. But apart from that, its free choice.

And definitely agree with Leah: "you still must be responsible for your actions".

i feel like I already knew what I was going to say...

2008-09-08T12:16:00.000-04:00

i feel like I already knew what I was going to say just from reading your blog post, so I may not be totally impartial. I am a big believer in genetic predisposition when it comes to thing like, say, carrying the BRCA1 gene. But breast cancer is something that starts inside your body and people with that mutation do not CHOOSE it - they may exacerbate things by smoking or not exercising but they don't have will power to exert over it. These men with this so-called mutation? Boo freaking hoo. I don't care if every man in your family was a cheater and at birth, they held you down and tattooed "Born Adulterer" across your bottom. You CHOOSE to cheat. It's not something that mutates in your blood saying, "Go screw your secretary." Blah.

That said, I think I have a mutation that renders me helpless over an open PB jar.

I need to ponder , very deep....need coffee! I lov...

2008-09-08T11:48:00.000-04:00

I need to ponder , very deep....need coffee! I love the photos! :)

free will.free will.genetically I wanna sit on my ...

2008-09-08T10:24:00.000-04:00

free will.

free will.

genetically I wanna sit on my ass all day ignoring work and toddler watch reruns of the real housewives of orange county and eat poptarts smeared with melted butter.

I'm all for personal responsibility. I think that ...

2008-09-08T10:22:00.000-04:00

I'm all for personal responsibility. I think that there are people born with certain genetic predispositions, some of which will definitely make their lives a bit harder than others'. And while that can explain before, it doesn't necessarily condone it. I have a former friend who nearly killed his girlfriend by punching her in the stomach. And then he was upset about it, but he ended up blaming it on his "intermittent explosive disorder" and the marijuana he'd been smoking. So on the one hand, I totally recognize that he may have genetic disorders which make it harder to control himself. But that doesn't mean that he's still a good guy, that he can just blame it all on that and not accept responsibility for it. So it was definitely a factor, but part of it was choices he made as well (like smoking the marijuana, not getting enough therapy, or meds, or whatever).

I also was fascinated with that Newsweek article a...

2008-09-08T10:21:00.000-04:00

I also was fascinated with that Newsweek article a few weeks ago....it actually gives some hope that parents can have a decent amount of influence, if you are "lucky" enough to have one of those fussy babies.. Finally!! a benefit.

I must say in my personal case study: my daughter (fussy from day zero) and her BFF (easy going from day one), it's really true. Mine is very influenced by us and others and very in-tune to others decisions. BFF could care less about her surroundings and parents influences, makes her decisions (very good ones) based on her own free will or whatever. But it's so interesting to watch from afar.

But I've also noticed is mine is much more influenced by her peers then BFF is...so could mean trouble ahead as she is heading into teen years.

"I can no more control my behaviour than I can the...

2008-09-08T10:19:00.000-04:00

"I can no more control my behaviour than I can the colour of my eyes or hair"...? Miss Clairol and the makers of coloured contact lenses beg to differ!
Seriously, I totally agree with my cousin (she's so much better at expressing herself, I should use her as my spokesperson, but that's just my genetic predisposition to laziness talking!)

Impulse control. It's a process which is hopefully...

2008-09-08T10:14:00.000-04:00

Impulse control. It's a process which is hopefully developed by adulthood.

I felt compelled to post that comment. But then I knew I could have control over my behaviour and so I didn't.

Damn.. never mind. ;)

Good post, Crabby!(Though I do agree that all this...

2008-09-08T10:12:00.000-04:00

Good post, Crabby!
(Though I do agree that all this thinking is contraindicated for a Monday morning ;)

Seems to me that it's a lot easier for people to accept a physically evident genetic disability, e.g. Down's Syndrome, than it is for them to deal with a disability that affects the mind/personality, e.g. autism.

Read a fascinating study a couple years ago about a connection between a clearly physical disorder (scarlet fever) and Tourette's Syndrome, a disorder that was once thought to be purely "in the mind". According to this study, both were triggered by the same virus (I think it was a virus. Or a bacterium) but one affected the heart and the other the brain.

I pretty came here to say what Leah said...humans ...

2008-09-08T09:57:00.000-04:00

I pretty came here to say what Leah said...humans have the ability to reason and make rational decisions...yes, we do have to choose to do so!