Comments on Cranky Fitness: Frontiers of Cosmetic Surgery: "Designer Vaginas...

Old post, I know, but i think that it is really di...

2008-04-06T01:29:00.000-04:00

Old post, I know, but i think that it is really disturbing that no one--no one brought up circumcision (the male kind). The parallels are perfect--pseudo-science says better hygiene, longer sex; culture says "eww" to foreskin because we were in the grip of said pseudo-science for so long.

I think it is enormously hypocritical to be castigating these women for unnecessary, unsafe gential mutilation when the same thing happens thousands of times a day in North American hospitals for the same reasons.

I'm totally with you on all that, Meg. The only t...

2007-07-23T16:44:00.000-04:00

I'm totally with you on all that, Meg. The only time I could see it was if someone really did have a physical deformity that was causing them pain. And I think that's pretty rare.

So this was a few weeks ago (in a week where I act...

2007-07-21T03:07:00.000-04:00

So this was a few weeks ago (in a week where I actually had a bit of a life) but gosh, I so just have to comment...

First off, I was imagining this like when they show plastic surgery on TV and women come to their doctors with pictures of a celebritie's nose or eyes or something... Gosh, are women looking at porn sites now so they can find that perfect look? ha.

Gosh, I just think that's sad (and painful). And I would imagine the vast majority or these women would have to be heteorosexual. I somehow don;t think any lesbian is going to tell her partner she looks weird down there or any of that nonsense. That's just dumb... And if I was faced with possible loss of sensitivity down there by going through the surgery, there is so no way I would do it. But I don't know. I guess if we want to live in a world that's all about men and pleasing them (and ghaving no fun ourselves) then yeah, the surgery sounds just "great".

Yeah, it's basically the stupidest thing I've ever heard... And it gives me the creeps....

Anonymous,Good point! Although I'm still reeling ...

2007-07-09T18:10:00.000-04:00

Anonymous,
Good point! Although I'm still reeling from the visual...

Interesting, because men certainly care about certain dimensions "down there," but I'm not sure the aesthetics are as much of a concern!

And thanks for your comment!

Ok, but how come we never hear about men having th...

2007-07-09T17:04:00.000-04:00

Ok, but how come we never hear about men having their sagging scrotums "adjusted" to be more pleasing to the eye? I mean, it's ok for a man to push this type of thing on a woman (not that i think it's "ok" by any means), but where are the women out there pushing men with big sagging doberman pincer looking sacks to have them fixed up to "look" better!?? Oh wait, men would never do it!

Hi Jan,I'm so sorry to hear about your surgery. A...

2007-07-07T10:03:00.000-04:00

Hi Jan,
I'm so sorry to hear about your surgery. A good reminder that any kind of surgery can have complications. And while I have nothing against women who work in the sex industry, I agree with you that it does seem odd that women who would never consider that line of work themselves are now going to major extremes in order to look like them!

Hi Kery,
Isn't that awful, the thought that some women would carve themselves up to please someone else? And what kind of guy would encourage someone to have surgery like that? Not someone you'd want to be with!

Halfman,
Very funny! Although as for instructions, I believe most women have another orifice further north quite capable of delivering them. Though many women are too shy to do it and many men too shy to ask!

Can they put personalized instructions on them :0

2007-07-07T09:08:00.000-04:00

Can they put personalized instructions on them :0

"And for those women who might be contemplating th...

2007-07-07T01:58:00.000-04:00

"And for those women who might be contemplating this surgery in order to please a disapproving boyfriend, husband, or other sexual partner? Ladies: it's not excess labial tissue you need to cut loose."

Okay, seriously, what *I* would cut lose in that case is definitely the partner. Anyone demanding that of a woman (or simply hinting that it's inconvenient to him) doesn't deserve her to start with. If she wants to do it because she's really physically inconvenienced, alright, but certainly not because someone else tells her to...

I think it is a terrible day when women let porn s...

2007-07-07T01:26:00.000-04:00

I think it is a terrible day when women let porn stars and strippers make us feel insecure. They used to be thought of as the dregs of society and not women to emulate. I have to confess that I too was very insecure about my breast and did have an augmentation. I liked the way they looked for sure, but ended up with complications and had them removed. Sadly I have lost all sensations in that area and I regret this. You don't know what you will be missing. I would never let anyone do anything unnecessarily to my vaginal area unless I had to. anyone who emulates porn movies or wants their loved one to emulate a porn woman is not a man I would want.

Hi anonymous--I'm with you, that dynamic sounds aw...

2007-07-07T01:21:00.000-04:00

Hi anonymous--
I'm with you, that dynamic sounds awfully creepy.

And that plaster cast--once they paid for it, you wonder if they used it for anything else afterwards? I'm picturing sex toys or novelty dinner candles. (Sorry, getting silly over here).

I used to know a woman who bragged about all the p...

2007-07-07T00:42:00.000-04:00

I used to know a woman who bragged about all the plastic surgery she had done--a breast reduction (because her husband didn't like large boobs) and a vaginal tightening (she had two children). Apparently they made a plaster cast of her husband's penis to make it more "customized". Their marriage is extremely disturbing. The husband is six years younger and a total cad who continually finds fault with his wife's appearance. She is an affluent sugar-mama--extremely self-absorbed and vain who likes to flaunt her wealth to the blue-collar likes of me. Yuck. I think 99% of plastic surgery is unessesary and shows the person to be as shallow as they come.

Hi Anonymous!Hooray, someone who actually knows so...

2007-07-06T22:22:00.000-04:00

Hi Anonymous!

Hooray, someone who actually knows something about the topic!

(Crabby specializes in having opinions about things; actual knowledge is not her strong point).

Sounds like what you did made total sense--just a medical procedure to make physical activities (including sex) not painful.

So Ob/gyn's are the place to go, then, instead of plastic surgeons, if you just want to make things more comfortable and are not just trying to "look like a porn star?" Good to know!

And I think the joking was more aimed at the women who are seeking physical "perfection" and not women having medical procedures.

Thanks so much for stopping by and commenting!

Love the comments and humor, but guys, ob/gyn's ha...

2007-07-06T21:51:00.000-04:00

Love the comments and humor, but guys, ob/gyn's have been doing this surgery for years! After two babies and a few years of cycling, my labia size changed and a great deal of discomfort when cycling (and sex) set in. The ob/gyn did a little snip and sew, six weeks out the the saddle (ALL SADDLES :-) and then good as new....actually, better :-) Sensation enhanced and no tugging and pulling when you want more probing and pushing, if you catch my drift. The plastic guys do charge a fortune for this, and advertise and all. Our family- friendly ob/gyns and been doing this on the sligh forever!

Hi John,Well if it makes you feel any better, I cr...

2007-07-06T21:04:00.000-04:00

Hi John,
Well if it makes you feel any better, I cringe during discussions of circumcision. There seems to be some sort of cross-gender genital slicing sympathy factor!

I don't even have one and yet I cringed...creepy.

2007-07-06T20:44:00.000-04:00

I don't even have one and yet I cringed...creepy.

Wow, most recent Anonymous, what a thoughtful post...

2007-07-06T19:25:00.000-04:00

Wow, most recent Anonymous, what a thoughtful post. (Makes me feel a bit bad for being so glib, but, well, that's sort of how I operate here).

So many good points--about the self-image issues underlying some of this, and the particular issues for sex workers (and I love that you include Trophy wives in this category) and the disturbing issues around non-consensual genital mutilation. Yet you take a very reasoned balanced approach, not a "rant" at all.

Thanks so much for your comment and for stopping by!

Hmmm. This post makes me want to rant about so muc...

2007-07-06T19:09:00.000-04:00

Hmmm. This post makes me want to rant about so much.

I think a more disturbing thought than these women undergoing surgery because they compared themselves to women in porn is that these women are doing so because they have set for themselves a certain mental image of what it should look like, without porn. That these women don't even need to place a mirror between their legs to stare at it and identify what they find unappealing in order for them to be convinced that something is wrong--like the woman with an eating disorder who doesn't need a mirror to be convinced that no matter what, she is still very fat. If these women are looking at porn for a normal vagina, they are seeing something I am not. In my experience, there are so many different vaginas that it's hard for me to derive a standard of normalcy.

While on the subject of porn, perhaps the women who are seeking this surgery are in fact the subjects, or involved in another kind of sex work. Then it makes more sense. Cosmetic surgery amongst porn stars, strippers, prostitutes, modern-day courtesans, even trophy wives must be more inclined to getting such work done. When I think of these kinds of sex work, it's nearly impossible for me to see it as women liberating themselves, but I'm surprised to find that is exactly what many claim. Even Playboy consideres itself to be a liberal feminist organization. All I can see it as is "Instead of men objectifying us, we choose to objectify ourselves."

Then again, if it's their thing, so be it. If the woman really wanted to do it--and by really I mean, not because she really wanted to do it for her significant other--then who am I to take her down a notch for it. The last thing I want to do is limit the already-too-limited choices available to women. At least she's claiming to have a choice in the matter. I get slightly creeped out by all the cutting up of genitalia that goes on out there... particularly when it's done without the consent of the person being cut. What particularly bugs me is that doctors will automatically assign a gender to hermaphroditic infants and perform reconstructive surgery on the infant's genitalia. Genital mutilation goes on everywhere, so I see it's catching up to us.

Hi Noah,I'm with you on that!(Actually, I was spec...

2007-07-06T17:36:00.000-04:00

Hi Noah,
I'm with you on that!

(Actually, I was specifically referring to the second part of your comment about the loss of sensitivity, but what the heck, lets hear it for likable vaginas!).

Hi Katieo!It is funny how one's view on the whole ...

2007-07-06T17:30:00.000-04:00

Hi Katieo!
It is funny how one's view on the whole issue of cosmetic surgery changes through the years. Easy to say you'd "never" be tempted do anything corrective when you're 19--a little more understandable once things start getting saggier. So I don't like to judge people for their choices... too often.

However, I think a lot of us just have this total blehh reaction to idea that we should even have to think about what our nether regions look like, let alone worry about it!

And thank your husband for his thoughts on porn stars' vaginas! (Bet that's not a thank-you you'd ever thought you'd hear.)

Hi anonymous,
That's pretty funny--and yes, I suppose the towel over the head might actually be more practical!

I'm with Jim on this one. Never met a vagina I di...

2007-07-06T17:26:00.000-04:00

I'm with Jim on this one. Never met a vagina I didn't like!

If I were a women the loss of sensitivity would kill any chance of this surgery for me, at least for stricly cosmetic reasons.

Hard to resist a comment here :-)Two things come t...

2007-07-06T17:12:00.000-04:00

Hard to resist a comment here :-)

Two things come to mind...
Some joke about looking bad, but feeling good....and the expression,"Bumping Uglies!"

At the fitness center where I work out, someone once walked into the pool area naked. They walked out for maybe 50 feet before they realized their error. They had a towel which they used immediately to cover-up. Someone in the group said, "they covered the wrong area because we usually recognize people here by their faces!"

oh, and my husband added that one shouldn't look t...

2007-07-06T16:32:00.000-04:00

oh, and my husband added that one shouldn't look to porn stars' vaginas as something to copy, who knows where they've been or what they really look like! lol!

Oh jeez. I'm with dawn. Do I laugh or cry? Beyond ...

2007-07-06T16:30:00.000-04:00

Oh jeez. I'm with dawn. Do I laugh or cry? Beyond ridiculous!
I also really appreciated appleton's comment too. I have, over the years, changed how I feel about elective plastic surgery. "Meh, whatever" to "Um what the crap did pregnancy do to my body?" to "no thank you!" Much more important things to worry about, spend money on, and I sort of feel that those things that will never be the same (like that annoying part of my stomach that will NEVER be flat again) are kind of battle scars in a way. Not only do I not mind them, I'm growing to appreciate the sacrifice. Maybe I'll feel differently more years down the line, change my mind, and go for the works! we'll see.
to each his own! I mean, to each HER own. :) But I am really saddened that this is even happening often enough to make news.

Hi Appleton,Hmm, never thought about comparisons w...

2007-07-06T15:31:00.000-04:00

Hi Appleton,
Hmm, never thought about comparisons with sex-change surgery or ear piercing. Instinctively, the three all sound very different to me, yet it's fascinating to see how quick we are to judge others on their choices. Thanks!

Hi Dawn!
I do believe you Kiwis are much more worldly about Matters Sexual than they let on. There's some joke to be had about the "Southern Hemisphere" or "Down Under" (though is that just Aussies?) but I can't seem to locate it at the moment.

Hi Marijke!
Well, I'm afraid you caught us on a rather off-color day--we're usually a bit more high minded and boring. Antioxidants anyone?

I had no idea what I was missing by not stopping b...

2007-07-06T14:20:00.000-04:00

I had no idea what I was missing by not stopping by your blog. I will correct the situation immediately.