Comments on Cranky Fitness: Women and "Beauty"-- I Just Don't Get It

Thanks Anonymous (and everyone!) for all your grea...

2009-07-01T06:09:18.076-04:00

Thanks Anonymous (and everyone!) for all your great comments. And Ranting is very welcome at Cranky Fitness!

I stumbled upon your blog as I am getting my hair ...

2009-07-01T04:03:26.057-04:00

I stumbled upon your blog as I am getting my hair cut for the first time in 8 months, (due to time constraints because I am busy, busy in my business), and googled hair styles,and all I found were celebrities styles. I don't give a crap about how they have their hair styled, I don't live their lifestyle, so how could I handle their hairstyle. It really peeved me!

I love your blog and comments from others. I too, as a woman, wear makeup, blowdry my hair, try to wear office attire mostly for work, but wonder,......why, who am I trying to impress?? Who set the standard of office attire anyway?

Who says I should dress up to become a better person. I don't wear heels, or dresses, I am more comfortable in workout clothing than dress clothing, who ever said a professional, has to dress a certain way???

I am kind, giving, honest, polite, loving, and helpful to all people I meet, why do I have to try to impress them with my clothing, makeup, hairstyle and weight. Are those good qualities not enough??? I actually consider myself a better person, than a lot of people who dress the professional part, as I am real, down to earth, and would not do just anything, to earn a buck. (ie: a revealing dress)

I am frustrated because I believe woman resort to makeup and clothing to boost their self esteem, and really if they thought about themselves and their beauty they have, they would not need a man, or any outside influence to confirm that beauty.

Bringing another thought to mind, I have friend, who in the cold of winter, will not wear a coat, because in her mind. a man may see her as fat, if she is not dressed seductively.

Sad, sad, sad, In my mind.

Thank you for letting me rant!!

Oh, and just to answer another of the questions yo...

2009-06-24T11:42:13.464-04:00

Oh, and just to answer another of the questions you asked -- the few very basic/simple beauty things I do engage in, like wearing make up, choosing clothes I think suit my shape/coloring, fixing my hair, I do for MYSELF, not for my husband or anyone else. I just personally feel better when I "put myself together" each morning before I leave the house.

On the other hand, I do NOT feel comfortable in heels, so I don't own any (okay, maybe I own one pair somewhere...) and I do NOT feel comfortable in copious amounts of makeup, so I mostly stick to simple foundation, powder and maybe a little mascara. I also don't feel comfortable maintaining a hair style that would require any more effort to style than blow drying it. I'm just not willing to mess with weird gels and potions, so I keep my style easy to manage. But it's all about my comfort and how I feel.

I'm kinda late in posting, but I just stumbled upo...

2009-06-24T11:34:24.072-04:00

I'm kinda late in posting, but I just stumbled upon your blog/this post.

I'm a 25 year old straight, married woman from NYC. I've always had a weight problem and while I've lost a lot of weight and learned to eat healthy and exercise daily, I'm still overweight and definitely NOT modelesque (or even close).

Since I was a little girl, I'd always considered myself rather masculine (or maybe 'gender-neutral' if a better description) and despaired for hours over this feeling as a 100lbs-overweight high schooler. I always WANTED to be the kind of girl that knows all about make-up and knows how to choose clothes and how to do her own hair in crazy complicated styles. But I just never was.

Nowadays, I do wear light make-up each day, do blow-dry my hair, do try to choose clothes that flatter me, etc. and I'm conscious enough of fashion to know what styles/clothes I should try to avoid, but I don't think I will EVER be the kind of woman who lives for that stuff. I just don't care THAT much but despite this, I've actually come to view myself as quite feminine as I've gotten older and matured.

And I think the trick is to separate femininity from the magazine-cover skinny fashionista ideal so often thrown at us and to understand that there is no one particular "correct" way to be feminine, to be a woman, what have you.

Regarding your questions about whether women impose strict beauty ideals on themselves, or whether they are imposed by men, I have to say that while it's probably a little of each, I TEND to think it's mostly in women's own minds, reinforced by companies out to make money that present unrealistic (for most) ideals. But I generally do NOT think that most normal guys really care all that much about their wives or girlfriends being perfect magazine-cover/music video ideals.

I think most (straight) men worth a damn are sincerely out to find a woman they can love, live with, have fun with, being emotionally/intellectually stimulated by. If that woman happens to look like she just stepped off the cover of Vogue, that's great, but I don't think most men care that much.

Love the post! I definitely don't get it. I don't ...

2009-05-23T23:49:41.914-04:00

Love the post! I definitely don't get it. I don't use "beauty" products, I don't bother with makeup. Heels, are you JOKING? My feet/ankles never would take those, I started spraining them way to early in life.

Pantyhose... well, once in a while when I was in high school. Don't think I've ever done that since.

I'm more happy to wash my face, brush my teeth, keep my general hygiene up and eat well. Occasionally I apply some Chapstick.

And for fun, every so often, I break out my assorted vintage/quirky/fun hats and wear them.

Hubby is a pretty basic guy himself and seems to like me in my natural form. Thank god. Because it's unlikely I'd change.

Being a male...I am not going to touch this one!!

2009-05-20T16:31:42.525-04:00

Being a male...I am not going to touch this one!!

First of all. I'm married to a guy and I've always...

2009-05-19T07:42:00.000-04:00

First of all. I'm married to a guy and I've always been a tomboy.

Here comes the 'shocker'. He actually likes me looking like a tomboy. Does not understand high-heels and thinks panty hose look very uncomfortable and unattractive.

How about that? He likes me happy and comfortable.

For me, dolling up has nothing to do with looking good for my or any other guy.

1. Every now and then I enjoy putting a bit more effort in my appearance. I like looking pretty according to my own rules. I sometimes like to wear heels but never at ankle snapping, back breaking height. I HATE panty hose ergo I do not wear them. My skin is just fine thank you very much. I refuse to wear any item of clothing that limits me in my freedom of movement, itches or hurts any part of my body. Comfort comes first.

Usually I like dress up when I have an important business meeting or something like that. It's a confidence booster/comfort giving mask. Not something I really am.

2. When I was a bit younger it was all about self-esteem. Now it's mostly a matter of feeling good in my own skin. A healthy body happens to be a (more) attractive body. I love having a body that 'suddenly' can do stuff I previously thought it couldn't do (dance, jump, run, kick etc).

3. Rarely. Mostly pre-party when I discover I forgot to do my laundry.

4. Does this whole blog post make you extremely irritated with me?

Nope (sorry) Nice to know there are other sensible people out there.

GIRLY GIRL all the way here! I love makeup and sho...

2009-05-18T10:04:00.000-04:00

GIRLY GIRL all the way here! I love makeup and shoes and clothes and feeling good when I get all dressed up in high heels. I do it because it makes ME feel good, though. And as sad as it is (and NOT that I agree with it), people who look a certain way in this country and take care of themselves (on both the inside and outside) get treated differently by others-- in the corporate world and by members of both sexes.

On the FLIP side, can anyone please explain the ad nauseum ad infinitum obsession that men (and some women-- like my sisters) have with SPORTS? Is it not sort of the same thing? And by that I mean, inexplicable interests that are sort of inherent and ingrained in us from early on? I've been a girly girl for as long as I can remember, and I'm sure it's the same for men (and women) who love Sports. Yes, with a capital S. Or for those who have other obsessions.

1- It's mostly what women demand (my male friends ...

2009-05-18T08:51:00.000-04:00

1- It's mostly what women demand (my male friends don't notice when my female friends get massive changes like dyed hair; little weight losses or designer clothes would largely be lost on them!) and also that we are told constantly that we had to look good to succeed. I remember an advert for wrinkle cream, where the woman applied it, turned round and hugged a small boy, before saying to the camera "Now my wrinkles are filled, and my life is too!" Subtle, no? But there are similarly bile-inducing adverts directed at men so I don't know why they don't get the same pressures. Or maybe they're better at hiding it?
2- Majorly self-esteem related, but this is mostly because I have low self-esteem, don't want to be noticed, and don't want to look bad enough, or weirdly, good enough, to attract attention. I'd rather be average-looking. Which I think I am. And healthy. Which I'm not, very. I don't think they can be entirely separated though, good looks being good largely because that is how we judge someone's health at first glance. Well, except for whatever weird-looking stuff fashion has come out with.
3- Yes, when I allow myself to get all compare-y and competitive. This is kind of in my nature and constantly in combat with the retiring part of my personality. So long as I look OK, I'm usually happy, though. I wouldn't say that my average looks means I don't mind getting belted with a shopping trolley....
4- I don't get irritated by this kind of thing, it's worth thinking about how important your image is to you before you get upset over it. And it's worrying how important image is made out to be. But on top of these issues, I've often wondered if there's a kind of reverse-snobbery going in the other direction, where you don't want try for beauty pageant pretty because of the bimbo associations, or whether you don't want to look like you've made an effort, because that would be admitting you care, or if there's any pride in looking scruffy and rebelling against the idea of the perfect image. I've certainly felt like this in the past. I think I will have to go have drunken student-y discussions with friends on the subject and set the world to rights. Any excuse.

As a former tomboy who would also play with dolls....

2009-05-17T21:46:00.000-04:00

As a former tomboy who would also play with dolls...which maybe explains my bisexual nature?

My parents took very strong measures to ensure that I would not have a "sexist" upbringing. My mother told me once that she was so dissappointed when as a small baby I reached for the doll rather than the truck - but she still made sure that I played with both!

Anyway, I love clothes and shoes and make-up and all of that stuff. And I have thought a lot about why, since I *hate* that women are judged on such things.

For me, it comes down to personal expression and some sort of creativity. I may not be able to draw or paint or compose music, but I can put together current trends in a way that says "this is me"

So in answer to your questions:

1. I want to be pretty for me. But yes, I like it when others - men OR women - notice. Especially women since they understand what is behind it!

2. All of the above. Having weighed more than I do now, I *do* notice a difference in how I am treated - and not just by men - both at work and in my private life. So yeah, being thin(ish) is a practical thing. And recreational - like I said, I enjoy the artistic side of getting pretty. And self-esteem - I like to look nice!

3. Yup, I do stress about my weight. I weigh myself every morning and when it is unusually high I sometimes have trouble reminding myself that this is still the body that ran a marathon and 2 days later wore amazingly beautiful high heels. ;)

4. I think this is a great post. Honestly, sometimes I wish that I didn't care so much about "beauty" because it is hard for me to be the feminist that I am and feel like I am not practicing what I preach! So I totally feel ya'.

Great post. I do agree what happened to natural wo...

2009-05-17T21:03:00.000-04:00

Great post. I do agree what happened to natural women and why are we so obsessed with looks. While I do think people should try and look their best, I never take the time to do so. I do work out all of the time but never buy new clothes, get pedicures, facials, or even wear makeup half the time. True beauty is within. Such a cliche but very true.

1. It's not what men demand, it's what people dem...

2009-05-17T17:14:00.000-04:00

1. It's not what men demand, it's what people demand. Let's face it, we're all nicer to attractive folks, as long as they don't act in ways that piss us off. Attractive children get more attention, and it snowballs from there as the attractive kids have more opportunities for social interaction and practice and develop better social skills, which in turn helps make them more attractive, etc.

2. I would have to say my focus on physical attractiveness is pragmatic. I'll never be a great beauty (and I'm not sure I'd want to be), but I need to be attractive enough for people to be kindly-disposed to me and not annoyed or distracted by something in my appearance.

3. Yes, I do stress over not being slim in certain situations where it's likely to be noticeable. But it's also not likely to be something I can really immediately do something about, so my stress takes the form of being vaguely pissed off wiht myself for being so lazy that I look lazy.

4. Nope.

Everybody seems to think that beautiful woman on t...

2009-05-17T16:10:00.000-04:00

Everybody seems to think that beautiful woman on the magazine cover is just an empty-headed "Jaguar" beauty symbol. In fact, she's obviously a martyr who must smile glitteringly through her tears. Just look at her posture: she has a heckuva back pain, caused by her obvious malnutrition, that she's gritting through. Give her three cheers!

I can't go a day without makeup or trying to look ...

2009-05-17T13:36:00.000-04:00

I can't go a day without makeup or trying to look my best. I feel like i'm always competing with other girls, when really, i'm not.
If I didn't have a boyfriend I think I would probably spend less time getting ready. Because if i go out with him and i'm lookin like shit and some other girls walk in looking hot, I feel like I am the ugliest person in the world.
I definetly think the makeup, clothes, etc. is a self confidence booster.
I wish I could be like other women and not try to worry so much about my apperance but if I dont have my nails done or a tan or a flat stomach or makeup on or my hair done or the cutest clothes on..I feel ugly!!

I always wonder what it would be like if there weren't any of the things that may you "beautiful".

Sure, it's easy to blame it all on men "...because...

2009-05-17T09:38:00.000-04:00

Sure, it's easy to blame it all on men "...because that's what men demand..."
But the truth is that women do this sort of stuff more for each other than they do for men at all. Fashion magazines? Written for, and purchased by women, and look at the credit pages, usually female names as the editors. It all plays to a competitive nature in many women, keeping score by accumulating shoes, handbags, clothes etc. Yeah, men are responsible for plenty of ills, but this one is on the ladies.

... sometimes I forget that I am freaking brillian...

2009-05-17T08:35:00.000-04:00

...
sometimes I forget that I am freaking brilliant, not average. It's really easy to designate myself as the default/baseline, but using that standard some things I come across online are insanely frustrating.

Do they have sociology in your region? I might give it a glance if I were you.

I think you may find as many variations to the ans...

2009-05-17T00:31:00.000-04:00

I think you may find as many variations to the answers to those questions as there are women in the world. ;-) I don't strive for a fashion model look and don't spend hundreds of dollars on shoes, but I do like looking and feeling beautiful. Mostly for myself, but I also like pleasing my husband and enjoy the little glint he gets in his eye. (Which, if I think about it, he always has no matter what I look like. ;-) He just plain adores me and I'm very blessed.) My makeup is minimal most of the time. And most days I'm wearing Crocs on my feet, but I do occasionally love wearing the girly heels, just not too high anymore. ;-) Since I'm almost 6 feet tall, it's not always easy to find the most fashionable clothes, but on the flip side, it's easier to pull off some designs when you are tall. I've always loved being tall. Dressing nicely in pretty shoes with my hair and makeup nicely done makes me feel pretty and confident. And when we go ballroom dancing, I love wearing a dress or skirt with lots of material for twirling! LOL

But I think a big factor with our self-image is the environment in which we grow up. My parents were always supportive and encouraged us to be happy with who we were and not try to be someone else. Growing up in a loving, nurturing environment usually turns out a totally different person than an environment that is critical and/or abusive. A loving environment can bring out the beauty from within. And it may have nothing to do with the latest fashions, hairdos or makeup. (And I pray that I've passed that on to my own children as well.)

Path to Health

I am SO with you on this. I'm all about my sneaker...

2009-05-16T21:45:00.000-04:00

I am SO with you on this. I'm all about my sneakers, comfy clothes, no make-up, and my Nike hat. (24/7)

I don't even own heels anymore b/c i have zero reason or interest to wear them.

My friends think it's very weird--but after reading all these comments, I don't feel so weird after all!

(I've always said this is the reason why God has only give me boys. I have no clue on how to raise a girl!) :)

What a great question! I wish I could write a boo...

2009-05-16T18:18:00.000-04:00

What a great question!

I wish I could write a book to answer this.

When I was younger I loved "tomboy" things, and aspired to dress like a skater chick. Later, in art school, this evolved to semi arty androgenous hipster chick.

Then I realized, for me, looking androgenous or arty or hipster or took as much work or more than wearing whatever I wanted.

After school I realized there really is a difference between those who think about what they wear day to day, and those that "dress like a student" (an Ab Fab quote). Meaning, just wearing clothes to cover your body... wearing pajamas to class.

Clothes, and I imagine, makeup too - have a transformative power. In a matter of minutes I can change my entire appearance. Throw on a dress (it can take 2 seconds) and I'm suddenly glamorous and girly. Throw on a blazer and I'm looking corporate. It's amazing.

There are so many different choices, I realized it was more fun to play than to keep myself in this same - sometimes equally frustrating- "student" rut, where I never felt my clothes really expressed who I was or how I was feeling inside. Honestly, I never felt my best in those clothes. Comfortable? Yes. Like I had a real presence, like I was walking taller, like I was making a statement -- wearing my personality (and how I'm feeling that day) like a badge of honor? No.

So for me, clothes are now more of an expression. Do I wear girly heels and a ridiculously frilly dress? When I'm feeling like it, sure. Will I dress up for others? Sometimes. Do I still have days where I don't have time to think about it and I'm lucky just to be covering my butt? Yes. But usually, I'm sending a message about me through what I'm wearing.

It's hard to find clothes that fit well, express my personality, and are comfortable. And, I can't really walk in heels anymore , so I need to be able to move and walk and maybe even run in my clothes and shoes, be them girly or less girly.

When I find items that do that for me, I love them and hold them and squeeze them and frankly wear them everyday until they turn to dust.

Me - hetero, 57, married for a long time, mother &...

2009-05-16T13:23:00.000-04:00

Me - hetero, 57, married for a long time, mother & grandmother - haven't worn make up since I was about 19, heels either, pantyhose hardly ever. Hair so short I don't even own a brush. But both of my daughers, one straight, one gay, seem to like the make up & heels. I guarantee they don't so it to please the men in our family - most of them would never even notice. And they sure didn't learn it from mom.

My assumption: that people's dress style must in general be something that appeals to them. Even I liked to dress up in costumes when I was younger, even sewed a few after I first saw Gone With the Wind. And that, genetically (remember, this is just my assumtion) more women than men like that stuff.

I am mostly glad that men can now (at least in San Francisco, where I live) dress up if they like, and women don't have to.

The weight thing? It is increasingly difficult to present in a way that works. We should NOT be seeking that model's look. But more and more of us are overweight, so we have to talk about it.

By the way, Jaguar? No! I ditched the car last fall & have been very, very happy. Now the only clothes I like as well as jeans are my cycling shorts.

While I very much enjoy the "feminine" clothes and...

2009-05-16T10:58:00.000-04:00

While I very much enjoy the "feminine" clothes and girly stuff *when comfortable,* I am totally with you on wondering why women wear uncomfortable heels and such! I mean, we get one life. No more pain than necessary!

When I was younger (read: pre-kids) I did my hair and makeup and worried more about clothes. Now I am too busy treasuring my children to spend an hour a day on that stuff. I spend 10 min on my hair and I skip the makeup most of the time.

BUT I do like my nails long, my toes painted, and a curvy figure. Yeah, I like the male attention, even though I am married and don't *do* anything with the attention I get from others. It just makes me feel good.

crabby you have hit a sartorial vein for us all. ...

2009-05-16T09:56:00.000-04:00

crabby
you have hit a sartorial vein for us all.
yes - i love "product", i love clothes and am endlessly looking for sexy shoes that don't hobble my poor feet.
and yes - i do it for myself, knowing full well that i am a victim of a society run amok by sex-crazed aging men who own all industries, fueld by women's insecurity of self.
and yes - it definitely causes me stress (or maybe that's from weighing myself obsessively at least twice a day?)
so it's a worship/despise kind of philosophy, full of knowledge that it's ridiculous and not being able to help myself either.
SO glad you wrote this post - it is falling on receptive and deaf ears

I ADORE this post. I think most women do it becau...

2009-05-16T09:53:00.000-04:00

I ADORE this post.

I think most women do it because of women rather than men. For me, looking good is a high priority (I'm aware of my vanity. Sighs. It's lame, but, I like looking good!), but I really equate looking good with FEELING good. If I'm feeling great, then that's all that matters. When you feel happy and good then that automatically shows, I think.

What a response! I think I can safely say that so...

2009-05-16T01:26:00.000-04:00

What a response! I think I can safely say that someone has said exactly what I was going to say.

I'm old enough that I like to be comfortable above all else.

When I was a youngster I would have loved to have been ravishing - but I wasn't and you soon get over it.

First, I love this post. Second, I've had so man...

2009-05-16T00:54:00.000-04:00

First, I love this post.

Second, I've had so many different versions of a comment marinating in this little box all day long. I've been thinking how I fall on both sides of the fence. I'm so a tomboy. I will always BE a tomboy. But I love me some cute (but always comfortable) shoes. I sometimes care a little too much about how much I weigh, sometimes I like to dress up and look a little nicer than my everyday uniform of flipflops and tshirts.

In my head, there's some sort of line that many women cross. When it comes to comparing themselves to others, caring so much about how they look that they become self-absorbed and/or judgemental. Or place all of their value in physical appearances. It bugs the crap out of me.

That said, in a few short months I will be on a quest to lose my baby weight again. This time I hope to be a little more sane about it, follow Miz's lead with no scale and staying away from measuring success with sizes. I guess in my head I see myself as a dented station wagon that has, for nine months, morphed into a gigantic garbage truck. That dented station wagon starts to look pretty svelt after awhile. I think it's one thing to whine about that last 10 pounds, another to gain enough weight that I just don't feel like ME. And while I think it's just fine to want to feel like "myself" again, I'm wary of ever crossing that line. The line where pressure from _______ (other women, men, society, whoever) is my motivating me to look a certain way, and not just a desire to feel like myself, look *decent, and be healthy.

*decent = showered, teeth brushed, dressed, clean, etc.

As for this post annoying me? YES. (But only because I've been thinking about it all day! And can't seem to find the right way to say what I want to say...)